May 9, 2007
Does anyone else find this profoundly disturbing? I don’t know how many of you know vegans and vegetarians (besides me, of course) but 99.9% of the vegetarians and vegans I know are all about doing things the natural way. Many of them are vegetarians to protect the earth, they live green, buy organic and are the biggest hippy tree huggers you’ve ever met. (I can say that because I’ve been accused of being a hippy tree hugger. ;) I would like to point out that I own a razor and vote Republican. Let’s not split hairs with that whole Ross Perot debacle. He seemed sane when I was voting for him.)
Vegetarians and vegans as a whole want to conserve the earth’s resources and are usually well educated. Which brings me to these people. The first and absolutely most glaring thing that stood out to me is WHY WASN’T SHE BREASTFEEDING THIS BABY? All us hippy tree huggers breastfeed! And secondly, did they not do ANY parental education? Read a book on babies? Anyone with half a brain knows you don’t give a newborn apple juice or soymilk. And no medical care? ALL THOSE THINGS ARE NOT YOUR TYPICAL VEGAN OR VEGETARIAN. So my feeling is that they absolutely were given the correct verdict and sentence. Ignorance is not an excuse for murder. Especially given their ages, I find it incredulous that they didn’t know better. This is NOT about diet. Vegetarians and vegans as a whole are all about what’s best for the body. This “diet” defense does not ring true to me AT ALL. Discuss.
May 9, 2007 at 3:59 pm
This is insanity. At their ages there is no way they can plead youthful ignorance. That baby had to have cried long and loud well before he died. No normal baby is 3 1/2 pounds unless they are premature, and those stay in the ICU. The fact that they’re vegans is absolutely irrelevant to their case and that attorney should be shot for making it an issue. He’d have had a better chance with diminished capacity. Where were the grandparents?! I’m going to sulk about this all evening.
May 9, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Unique- That’s EXACTLY how I feel!
May 9, 2007 at 4:41 pm
i was disgusted with it. my hubby was vegan for 9 years and i was always fascinated by the fact that he knew what to use for substitutes. i thought anyone who is vegan or vegetarian knew what your body needs and what you can do to substitute things. it just amazes me that this couple (who was in their early 30s) really thought soymilk and apple juice was acceptable and when they saw the baby getting sick, they didn’t believe in taking it to the doctor. i don’t get it.
May 9, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Jess- It makes no sense because it had to have been intentional. I mean honestly, there’s no way to NOT know that baby is sick, hungry and crying.
May 9, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Jess- But don’t substitute Tofu and feta & goat cheeses for Ricotta. It’s SO BAD.
May 9, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Maybe intentional is a little too strong without more proof. First I would have to rule out whether or not they were imparied. That was poor judgement to say the least. Like a person with a brain injury or neuro deficit might do. I know a few things about cognative deficits and this smacks of imparied judgement.
Maybe one has a neurological deficit and the other one was too reluctant or trusting to take a stand.
Man, thats the only thing I can think of that would explain how someone could harm this sweet baby. If that isn’t the case then intentional really is the next logical assumption.
May 9, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Lolli- No person right in the mind would stand by and let the other kill a baby even if it was impaired judgement. So even if ONE of them was not right in the head, what about the other? And as unique pointed out, where were the grandparents? Friends? THE MIDWIFE? It just doesn’t make any sense!
May 9, 2007 at 8:43 pm
my hubby and i were talking about this, and he said that even though the parents chose to be vegan.. they shouldn’t, under any circumstances, make the child be vegan as well. there are certain nutrients your body needs, especially a baby, and it’s easy for an adult to substitute for this but not for a child. i don’t understand their mode for this and why they didn’t take their child to a doctor when they obviously had to realize the baby wasn’t growing. i mean, 6 wks and 3 lbs. that’s ridiculous.
May 9, 2007 at 8:46 pm
Jess- there are so many things wrong with this picture. But you’ve hit on why I’m a vegetarian but my children are not….
May 9, 2007 at 9:01 pm
How stupid were these people? soy milk and apple juice? How was this issue not caught somewhere? If the mother complained about what is in formula or something, why wasn’t she given help to learn to breast feed? If she was breast feeding in the hospital, why did she stop? If I were vegan or vegitarian, I’d just breast feed, as you said in your post. And how did other people not notice?
I’m blanking on how frequently the baby has to be taken to the doctor in those first months, but I’d think that if the growth wasn’t right, the doctor would have done something? This is, of course, miss social work major thinking.
I was about to post this, and thought of a stupid question, but would there be any reason why breastfeeding would have been against their beliefs? I can’t think of one, but I’m the first to admit to eating unhealthily and not knowing much about other diets/lifestyles.
May 10, 2007 at 8:06 am
After stewing on this more, I’m still angry. This couple had the baby at home, probably didn’t have a midwife either. If a couple goes to that extreme it’s not a big leap to assume they didn’t take the child to the doctor, or perhaps even register the birth. With that all said, I’m surprised that anyone knew about the death of this poor child.
May 10, 2007 at 12:45 pm
I’m totally shocked. My youngest is 17 months old. I shudder at the thought of anyone treating a baby that way for ANY reason.
May 10, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Nickie- They didn’t have a hospital birth and apparently never took the baby to a doctor. And no, breastfeeding is not against vegan beliefs.
Unique- It’s so tragic. It’s still bothering me too.
Liz- I just don’t understand this at all either.
May 11, 2007 at 8:07 am
It scares me that people could be this stupid. I can’t even imagine how much that little one must have been crying. As you said, intentional or willful ignorance is the only thing that makes sense. My youngest is 8½ weeks, it just hurts thinking about another baby dying like that.
May 11, 2007 at 8:45 am
Jason- It’s soul crushing, isn’t it? These things you don’t understand fully until you have kids….
May 11, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Let me start by saying this is a horrible tragedy that brings tears to my eyes. This should never have to happen, especially in this country where so much help is available.
Now, just to give you all something to mentally chew on. I don’t know the whole story, but let me throw out some possibilities.
1. They couldn’t breast feed for whatever reason, and there are many reasons. Many people believe that soy milk has enough nutrition for a baby. They don’t know any better. Luckily most of these are caught and re-educated before any real damage is done.
2. They didn’t have any family or friends around to recognize that they were in over their heads, and the baby was in danger. And as some have already stated, they probably didn’t see a doctor since it was a home birth, they were vegan, etc. It was most likely against their principles.
3. The baby didn’t cry non-stop. They may have been giving the baby quantities sufficient enough for the baby to feel full without getting the nutrients it needed. As a baby becomes sick it is usually lethargic, and will probably even sleep a lot. This could have convinced them that they had a “good” baby until it had gone too far. Age does not give you smarts.
The real crime here is that they were uneducated, and sadly the baby had to pay the price.
May 11, 2007 at 2:29 pm
A friend of mine who’s wife was in Protective Services once said that everyone should have a valve put in on their reproductive system early in life and then have to pass a test to get it turned to “ON”. I always thought it was a good idea These people would not have passed the test. (Ignore the privacy concerns with such an idea, the plan has LOTS of things wrong with it and doesn’t hold up to any criticism, but it’s nice to think that kids would only be born to people who both wanted them and knew what they were doing.)
May 11, 2007 at 9:28 pm
While we don’t have enough information to attribute this fully to either ignorance or malicious intent, I tend to lean more towards ignorance being the culprit; there don’t seem to be any other indicators of and/or motives for malicious intent or other forms of abuse. That being said, I feel pretty uncomfortable with punishment being administered here; sometimes a tragedy is just a tragedy, and if I am correct in guessing that blatant ignorance is mostly responsible for this very unfortunate incident, than the event itself will be a very solid life sentence for the parents in and of itself. I guess how you feel about this last statement depends on your interpretation of the expression “Good intentions pave the road to hell.” I tend to feel a bit outraged when punishment is enthusiastically dolled out in cases where it is out of sync with the perpetrator’s intent…
May 14, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Susan- Ah yes, but the debate is over whether the punishment fit the crime.
Jason- I strongly believe that too. Idiots should be sterilized.
Myrealitie- Ignorance is not an excuse for causing someone’s death. The legal term for that is manslaughter. This couple was convicted of murder, indicating there was some malicious intent here. Make no mistake, this was not an accident.